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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions! (Kammerlader)

by PommyB @, Spokane, Washington, USA, Monday, April 14, 2014, 10:51 (1255 days ago)

Hello all, I am new to the site & to antique Scandinavian firearms in general. I saw a couple of Kammerladers in a gun shop almost a year ago when I visited Seattle & only had a vague idea as to what they were, since then my interest increased & during another visit last week found that they were both still there so brought one home!
I would like to get some help with most all aspects of this rifle. First I would like to confirm what exactly I have. I have been reading all that I can find online, & in Oyvind's book, about these rifles but am still a little confused.
As you can see by the photos it is a 2-band rifle, 49.5 inches long with a 30.5" barrel.
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One of the articles I read indicated that if the serial number on the flat plate at the rear of the action was centered that indicated the rifle was built as a Model 1859, rather than being a conversion, however the wooden filler next to the front barrel band spring is evident which would seem to suggest it is a converted rifle.
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The only serial number I can find on the rifle is 955 & it appears on the left hand side of the action, to the rear of the lever pivot nut, on the top of the action (front & rear), on the rear sight base, trigger guard finial, on the top tang, & on the buttplate. This seems like an awfully low number.
I haven't cleaned the rifle yet, so it is still a little grimy, so I may be missing some markings, but I see nothing on the stock. There is what appears to be regimental markings on the top of the buttplate which are: S M C A 43.
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On the top of the action, between the block & rear sight, there is what appears to be an italic E, which is also repeated on the right hand side of the action just to the rear of the lever, is this a manufacturer's mark? On the rear action flat there is also an oval cartouche with what looks like a JJ inside, is this an inspector's mark?
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Overall I'd say the rifle is in very good condition. Apart from one small area of light pitting the bore is close to excellent, so I'm hoping to have some success when it comes time to shoot the rifle. One issue I am having though is that the lever doesn't want to travel all the way down when the action is closed (see photo). I think it is binding on the upper of the three pins.
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Where can I find directions on how to disassemble the rifle so I can give it a thorough cleaning? Are the nipples removable? I would expect that would have been changed periodically during their service life, are replacements available?
Here's some more photos:
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What does the R signify?
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I look forward to reading any comments & observations.

Edit: Changed topic to Kammerlader. JJ

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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by jæger justnæs @, Kristiansand, Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 09:46 (1253 days ago) @ PommyB

First, congratulations! Nice kammerlader :-)
I will try to answer some of your questions. Please excuse my terrible technical language.

This is clearly a Model 1849/59 produced at Herzberg. The R on the lockplate is only found on Herzbergs kammerladers. In front of the chamber: R over C.H. (Crause Herzberg). You will find "R2" and year of production stamped under the barrel, close to the breech. 2000 M1849s were made by Herzberg in 1852 and 1853. Kongsberg, Liege and Herzberg used separate serial numbers. Trace of the inlay on the block after the M1849 sight is visible. It is said that they always are numbered to the right of the inlay but exceptions may occur. Mind you, this number was probably stamped at the conversion to the M1855 rear sight as this area was covered by the old sight. That's my explanation, anyways.
Sunde calls the model "18 lødig avkortet Kammerladningsgevær M/1849/59 - Hertzberg" Or something like 18 gauge shortened Chamberloading rifle M/1849/59 - Herzberg in English.

There is what appears to be regimental markings on the top of the buttplate which are: S M C A 43.

Used in the west of Norway: Stavangerske nationale Musketer-Corps, A = Lysterske Compagnie

On the top of the action, between the block & rear sight, there is what appears to be an italic E, which is also repeated on the right hand side of the action just to the rear of the lever, is this a manufacturer's mark? On the rear action flat there is also an oval cartouche with what looks like a JJ inside, is this an inspector's mark?

The E is to my knowledge stamped by Magnus Engelschiøn upon conversion to the M1855 rear sight.
The inspector's mark might be Jens Landmark, the picture is a bit blurry.

One issue I am having though is that the lever doesn't want to travel all the way down when the action is closed. I think it is binding on the upper of the three pins.

The kammerladers that has seen little use are so tight fitting that mild force is required to close the lever properly. It is likely that a tight fit combined with rancid grease and/or surface rust is the issue here. Also, make sure that the barrel part is cleaned to accept the length of the entering chamber part -.if I make myself understood. Dismantling of the chamber and cleaning/oiling the milled part for the pivot and the pivot itself is recommendable. Uncrew the nut and with the chamber 45 degrees up/forward and the lever 45 degrees up/backwards, the lever should be easy to remove. Give and take some degrees and toggle parts gently, it should require little force.

To disassemble the action, unscrew and remove the block and then the bottom plate is to be slided in the backward direction. It is slotted into the breech. The side plates are brazed to the barrel.

Nipples are removable, replacement are not readily available. Get one made, drawing available on the Norwegian board. Should fit, it is used by many shooters over here.
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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by jke @, Wisconsin US, Saturday, April 19, 2014, 13:44 (1250 days ago) @ jæger justnæs

Hello,

Very nice looking rifle. Will you be shooting it?

John

My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by Martyn, Saturday, April 19, 2014, 14:45 (1250 days ago) @ jke

Yes, I fully intend to shoot it, just need to get her cleaned up a bit & get a bullet mold. I have read some of your Kammerlader posts over the last week or so with interest. What bullet are you using in your rifle & what type of results are you getting. Accurate Molds in Utah has a few Kammerlader bullet designs in their catalog, have you seen them? Did you replace the original nipple in your rifle, if so did you make the new one or were you able to get some ready made?
I would like to get a klikklær for mine & also one of the star-shaped combination tools I've seen pictures of, do you know if they are available or do people make them themselves?

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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by Øyvind F. ⌂ @, Bergen, Saturday, April 19, 2014, 17:42 (1250 days ago) @ Martyn

jæger justnæs pretty much sums it up. I've got one thing to add regarding the marking on top of the butt plate (S.M.C.A. 43). This means that your rifle is rifle number 43 of Stavangerske Nationale Musketer-Corps, Compagnie A (National Musketeer Corps of Stavanger, Company A) which was a part of the Christiansandske Infanteribrigade (Kristiansand Infantry Brigade). Stavangerske Nationale Musketer-Corps had four companies:

  • A, also called Jædenske Compagnie
  • B, also called Dalernes Compagnie
  • C, also called Sierdalske Compagnie
  • D, also called Listerske Compagnie

(source: http://www.kvf.no/vaapen.php?type=Merking&weaponid=MRK0010)

35 VRM made up a bunch of kammerlader combination tools. I think he might have a few left. Krutthorn makes excellent slings and klikklær for the kammerlader.

--
Øyvind F. - forum admin
Click here to read more about my new book: blackpowderbook.com.

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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by jæger justnæs @, Kristiansand, Saturday, April 19, 2014, 18:24 (1250 days ago) @ Øyvind F.

Good job, Øyvind. I mixed up the companies og S.M.C. and So.M.C. when I was posting while looking in the kammerlader book.

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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by jke @, Wisconsin US, Saturday, April 19, 2014, 22:37 (1250 days ago) @ PommyB

Hei PommyB,

Well it looks like you are getting answers straight from the experts.
If you email me I will get you started with a few bullets free of charge until you make up your mind on a mold.

John, jke577500@gmail.com

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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by PommyB @, Spokane, Washington, USA, Wednesday, July 02, 2014, 16:55 (1176 days ago) @ jke

A few weeks have passed since my last post, but I finally found time to get the Kammerlader cleaned up & she's working beautifully now. The dark finish on the wood & metal appears to have been a coating of soot/grime, so I think the rifle may have spent some years in a smoky environment.
I decided on a bullet mould from Accurate Molds in Utah, it is quite close to the original in body shape, but has a small flat on the nose rather than a point & is also heavier than the original at 695gns. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with load combinations yet, but have found that 95gns of KIK 1.5Fg, a 1/4" 12g felt wad seated on the powder, & the above mentioned bullet fill the length of the chamber just nicely. The bullet diameter was a little loose in the chamber, so I correct that by using a brown paper disc as a 'sabot' & that is keeping the bullet nicely centered. For lube I am using a producr available in North America called Udderly Smooth, which is a cream originally designed for cow's udders but is also sold as a hand cream/lotion. It does a great job of lubricating & keeps the BP fouling down to a minimum.
I was up in Alberta, Canada this past weekend for the annual Victorian Rifleman shoot, organized through British Militaria Forums. I shot the Kammerlader at 100yds, prone without a sling. The group was off to the left, but most of the thirteen shots would have comfortably fit in the black of the B-17 target, so I was fairly pleased with the result.....just need to fine tune the sights a little more!
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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by Kammerherren ⌂ @, Hadeland, Wednesday, July 23, 2014, 11:16 (1155 days ago) @ PommyB

Hey, look what I found! PommyB on video. Always good to see a Norwegian gun in action on Youtube! Looks like you guys had a nice day at the range!

--
Kammerherren

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My New Kammerlader.....Many Questions!

by PommyB @, Spokane, Washington, USA, Wednesday, July 23, 2014, 17:38 (1155 days ago) @ PommyB

One of my Canadian friends makes a lot of videos on shooting historical firearms, & while we were in Alberta he did the one of my Kammerlader & another of a guy shooting his East India Co. fusil. Most of his videos have been on the Enfield rifle muskets & the .451 Volunteer rifles, but he recently bought a nice Mk.I Martini-Henry, for which I sent him some of the .577/.450 cases I make, so I am looking forward to seeing his first M-H video!

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